The Fields Association - On Air
The Fields Association discuss all matters in connection with Wethersfield Airbase and its impact on the local community and proposed residents, be that Asylum Seekers or Prisoners. We try to balance all sides of the arguments as we discuss government decisions and the impact on a small Community.
Each episode will explore in depth, all the questions community members near and far are asking in relation to the thorny issues that are now part of our everyday lives.
Interviews with individuals from different organisations, sharing their knowledge, will help us and others, try to navigate through these challenging times.
The Fields Association - On Air
Unlocking Transparency: Navigating Freedom of Information Requests with Sarah Horseman
Unlock the secrets to navigating the world of Freedom of Information Requests (FOIs) with us on Fields Association On Air, featuring family lawyer and local resident Sarah Horseman. Through an enlightening discussion, Sarah sheds light on the pivotal role FOIs play in ensuring governmental transparency and accountability. You'll gain insights into the historical journey of FOIs, beginning with the first law in the United States in 1966, up to the influential UK's Freedom of Information Act 2000. Learn how these requests empower citizens by granting access to vital government documents, from reports to emails, while understanding the nuances of exemptions like national security.
Our conversation takes a deeper dive into the pressing concerns of Wethersfield and Finchingfield residents, addressing the lack of transparency surrounding the establishment of an asylum center. Sarah discusses the intricate balance between government decision-making and the public's right to know, offering practical advice on crafting specific FOI requests and navigating the appeal process for denied requests. Whether you're wrestling with a similar issue in your community or simply wish to become more informed on leveraging FOIs, this episode equips you with the knowledge and strategies needed to hold government entities accountable.
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Thank you
Hello and welcome to the Fields Association On Air. We are a group of residents who are passionate about tackling all aspects of local and national government decisions that affect local communities. In each episode, various members of the Fields Association will be exploring a range of subject matters, discussing all the angles of each issue and interviewing those who can add an expert or helpful point of view. So grab yourself a tea or coffee and listen in as we look to navigate through these current challenges. Welcome back to the Fields Association on Air podcast.
Speaker 1:Today I'm talking to Sarah, sarah Horsman, and it's something a bit different. Today we're actually looking into some of the elements that go on behind the scenes about how the Field Association individuals collect and collate their information to put forward reasoned arguments and also to keep the local community informed on things and it's a phrase that you might have heard, and it's freedom of information FOIs. So I've asked Sarah to come along today and just have a chat about what FOIs are, what sits behind them, how they work and a bit about the history of it and that sort of thing, just so that if you ever fancy giving an FOI a go, then you'll be in the right sort of ballpark. So I'll say hi to sarah and if, sarah, if you'd be just kind enough, just let everyone know, um, for who you are, what you do, and um, and you know whether you're local, whether you come from far afield hi, tony.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you for inviting me along today. Um so, I'm Sarah Horsman. I live in the village, have done for probably about 19 years now, and before that we were in Blackmoor End for a little while. My background is in law I'm a family lawyer and a family and child inclusive mediator, but I'm lucky enough, I only work part time.
Speaker 1:Well, that sounds good. Well, you're the. You're the person that sprung to mind when we um with, when I was thinking of foi as freedom of information requests. Uh, lots of members of the field association um write off and uh and inquire about gaining information. And in fact, I heard an interesting statistic uh, the other day when I was talking to some government uh officials and they were saying to me that that fois have become so sort of a popular intrinsic in what we do these days that each department has between 10 and 20 individuals dedicated to just answering FOIs. So well, I mean, let's start. What is an FOI, sarah?
Speaker 2:So an FOI or Freedom of Information Request is a formal request made by a member of the public, a journalist or an organisation, and it's for access to official documents or information held by public authorities. The idea is that citizens have the right to access information about government actions, policies and decisions, and it's to promote transparency, accountability and public involvement in governance.
Speaker 1:Do you think it's a good idea?
Speaker 2:Yes, I think it's really important. I think that I mean certainly for me. How I came to be a member of TFA really is because I felt that there was information that was lacking when we first got told that there was going to be an asylum centre at Wethersfield, and so I did some FOIs myself, which led to, you know, information that I thought would be helpful to the TFA. That's how I came to meet a lot of you on the TFA.
Speaker 1:I think what's interesting is, sometimes I sit and I think if they were more transparent they'd be in sort of the government or whatever department you're dealing with Ministry of Justice, home Office, whatever it is. They're more transparent up front. That would help. It probably means that we wouldn't have a need for this sort of intervention, but of course it's very difficult. You're not going to answer everyone's question, even if you are being transparent. So I suppose with an FOI you can be very specific about the information, but what's the history behind it then?
Speaker 1:When did they sort of come about FOIs?
Speaker 2:So the Freedom of Information movement gained momentum in the 20th century as part of a global push for more government transparency. The first Freedom of Information law was actually passed in the United States back in 1966. But other countries then followed suit and in the UK the Freedom of Information Act 2000 was enacted back in 2005, and it granted citizens the right to request information from public bodies. In most countries, the right to request information became available to the public after the respective legislation was passed, but the timing and scope of implementation has been quite varied.
Speaker 1:That's really interesting. So what sort of things can you ask for then, if you want some information?
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, the great thing about Freedom of Information Requests is that you can ask for a wide range of information. This could be things like government reports, emails, memos. It can be correspondence between officials, it can be records of meetings or decisions, budgetary and financial documents, or data and statistics held by public bodies.
Speaker 1:Yes, there's loads and loads of things. You can literally ask for anything yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:I mean, I think the key is to be quite specific about what you want, um, but some information is exempt from release, so they won't release it. If it's, for example, sensitive national security data, personal information. They won't release any information that's legal advice or commercially confidential information. But you know, it does cover a wide range of information and, as we said before, can be really really useful.
Speaker 1:So they'll make that decision on whether something's confidential or not, in the best interest to be released.
Speaker 2:That's right and this can be any department, any any government department.
Speaker 1:Yes, local government it can be absolutely so.
Speaker 2:You can make it. For example, you can make an application to the home office, the ministry of defense, or to braintree district council, or to utility companies such as, you know, anglia water, that they have to consider it. As we said, they don't have to give you the information if they consider that it's sensitive in some way.
Speaker 1:Um so, I'm going to put you on the spot now and just say what, what would be in your eyes kind of a crazy thing to ask for, what was and what would be something sensible to, or for if you were writing a freedom.
Speaker 2:I suppose anything that would be security sensitive. So if you asked them to let you know their policy on deporting asylum seekers, they might not release that information to you, but if you ask them for statistics on the number of people that entered the country during the month of june 2024, then hopefully that's information that they might give to you.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay, oh that's interesting, so yeah, so then basically you, but you'll find out. They're right back to you. Either way, I would say we can't divulge this information or the answer to your question.
Speaker 2:Yes, I mean very often. I mean in my experience they will release some of the information you ask for, but generally not all of the information that you ask for, and quite often it can be quite heavily redacted as well, which is often a source of frustration.
Speaker 1:I think as well. If they can understand what sits behind the request for the information, that helps a bit as well, doesn't it? I have heard of examples where people have asked what the budget was for sandwiches within a meeting and why they deemed it necessary to spend that budget.
Speaker 1:I find that incredible that someone's got the time to actually ask that question. But it might be important to someone. But what about the guidelines the government has to follow? I mean, you said something about going to this big black hole. How does that work? Are there sort of specifics that they have to follow?
Speaker 2:Yes, governments are required to follow specific guidelines and timeframes. So in the UK, a public body must respond to a freedom of information request within 20 working days. The response can either be to release that information that's been requested, to refuse the request, although they need to provide valid reasons, or they can extend the time if the request is complex. If a request is refused, the public body must explain the reason for the refusal and the requester has the right to appeal. There are some exemptions that may delay or prevent release and we've talked a little bit about that previously, but there are also safeguards to ensure transparency.
Speaker 1:Really useful as well to understand what about who you send the FOI to. I know we sort of touched on it earlier about some of the organisations you send into. Do you need a specific name, or is it department, or can it be completely random? How does that work?
Speaker 2:So FOI requests can be sent to any public authority that holds the information that you seek. So this will include government departments, local councils, nhs, trust schools, police forces and, as we discussed again previously, sort of some private companies that provide a public service. The information must be held by the organisation at the time of the request and you make the request to that department. So, for example, making a request to the Home Office, there is a dedicated email address. I think off the top of my head, it's something like foirequests at homeofficecouk, but please check that out before you use that email address.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:So it doesn't need to be addressed to a specific person.
Speaker 1:And I suppose that comes back to. There's a dedicated element department within those departments.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And then they sort of sift through them and then go back to them.
Speaker 2:Absolutely Okay.
Speaker 1:That makes sense. Okay, Is there some sort of a timeframe or anything like that? Did you say?
Speaker 2:Yeah, 20 working days when they have to respond frame or anything like that. Did you say, yeah, 20 working days when they have to respond? Um, I I did find for the from the a lot of the requests that I've made myself, that they will quite often ask for extra time. So you get an email within the 20 days saying that they need more time to process the request and and some of the requests that I I made, certainly early on, have taken a lot longer than 20 days. But you get there in the end. You just have to be persistent and patient, okay well, that's good.
Speaker 1:Um, I mean, has anything useful come out of fris that either you've put in personally or that you you know about?
Speaker 2:yes, I think they have. I think they've provided some insight into government decision making. Um, they've provided some insight into government decision making. They've uncovered some hidden or underreported issues and they've really allowed for greater public scrutiny. I feel that we've been able to expose inefficiencies and, in turn, apply pressure on the government, and in turn, apply pressure on the government.
Speaker 1:I remember early doors, when all this started about the prisons, and then obviously switching over, pivoting to the asylum centre, when we all got invited over. Do you remember?
Speaker 2:a lot of local people got invited over to the base to have a look around. Yes, I was at the meeting.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and we got to look around and talking to the person that was managing the project at that stage. I remember he said to me will the Fields Association stop writing FOIs? I spent half my day responding to these FOIs. Well, are they sensible requirements? He said. I totally understand why you're asking the questions you're asking and we're kind of duty bound to answer them, taking a lot of our time and of course I think that fed back from the home office time their approach around not going to engage. So there were specific absolutely.
Speaker 2:I think we we had to because you know we were in the dark, uh in in so many respects and I you know, as I can't remember who it was now, but some famous American president who said knowledge is power.
Speaker 2:But you know I think that's absolutely right and I remember reading in one of the reports a reference to the local organisation, so I think it was about the TFA organisation. So I think it was about the TFA and there was an acknowledgement about how organised and knowledgeable they were. So we were noticed by the Home Office and I think they took us seriously and I think it's really important.
Speaker 1:That's really good. No, that's really good and I think that's correct as well. I, right from the start, we've made a point of being apolitical and, uh, it's not really about the politics, about the right result, making informed decisions and again, trying to as well educate, um, knowing sort of the local scenario and for the rest of it, challenges right, trying to educate the incumbents in government as well um trying desperately to make it a two-way street, but, yes, you're right, so getting this.
Speaker 1:We want to educate the incumbents in government as well. We're desperately to make it a two-way street, but, yes, you're right, so getting this information is crucial for us. Ok, so which response have you had? Any sort of responses that have been either the most informative, or shocking, or interesting that that you think would be nice for millions of?
Speaker 2:listeners to hear helpful. As I said earlier, it's been quite frustrating because a lot of the information is heavily redacted but you can read between the lines with some of it, I think. Probably what started this off for me was that I made a request for an equality impact survey that I'd heard referred to by the Home Office at one of the early meetings and I wanted to see it and it took a while but I did eventually get hold of a copy of the equality impact survey and I had assumed that that would take into consideration the impact of the asylum centre on the local community and I was really shocked and surprised that, although quite rightly it took into consideration the impact of citing the asylum centre at Wethersfield on the service users, it failed to address at all the impact of, you know, citing a large. At this stage I think we were still being told that there might be 1750 um male asylum seekers in weathers, um and it. It absolutely failed to address the impact that it was going to have on our little community here and particularly the women in the area.
Speaker 2:Um, and yeah, that was. That was quite a shock and a surprise and led to more freedom of information act applications being made and letters to mps and and various other people. Um, and and out of that, because the the original foi request and the documents that came through to me referred to various other documents. Off the top of my head I can remember it referred to a traffic management plan, and so I then requested the traffic management plan and there was information in that that turned out to be quite helpful, so that was probably the one that sticks in my mind as being the most successful and informative and you were doing this just out of your own interest, just yourself.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, of course, because you know, like most of the people in our village in weathersfield and finching field, we were really worried about the impact and that the asylum center was going to have locally and we just weren't getting any information from the Home Office and I think the unknown was causing real fear amongst the residents of Wethersfield. So I wanted to find out as much information as I could, hopefully to allay those fears.
Speaker 1:Yeah, did it allay those fears. Yeah, did it allay those fears?
Speaker 2:No, if I'm honest, I don't know, although I think what has perhaps allayed my fears is time and the realisation that some of those fears hadn't come to pass, um, but also the fact that I think the home office and the government departments um realized that we we were going to they couldn't just hide things um, and that we were going to find out if they were telling us porcupines about things or not telling us things, um, and that made me feel better.
Speaker 1:It goes back to, I suppose, knowledge being power I think it's a really, really challenging discussion as to which direction works best. Is it better to say we, we're going to as a government, we're just going to do this. If we talk about this, we'll never get anything going. So let's just do it and push things through without involving the normal checks and balances. But I can kind of understand why they do that sometimes, but then, by the same token, the checks and balances are so crucial that you've talked about. We have to understand some of the impacts because local community and certainly local, you would hope as well the local governance would recognise those and be able to push back a little bit. That's just not workable and in fairness, I mean, the asylum centre was originally marked for 1,700, around the 550-ish mark, and they're just pushing up again, aren't they? At the moment?
Speaker 1:They're putting more people but they seem to put more people in A few more challenges, but again, we will find out what those are down the line eventually through freedom of information. Yes, so that's the sort of thing we can check and then almost use to go back and say, well, this has been, or this hasn't been absolutely, and I mean it's not just the impact on the locals here.
Speaker 2:I think it's sort of you know it's a wider issue than that, because we were all told that one of the reasons for main reason for putting an asylum center in weathersfield was cost and cost saving for the government, and through the Freedom of Information Act applications that have been made, we can quite clearly see that that's not the case and um you know they overspent by millions and millions um and you know that that information we've we've managed to get through. You know various, numerous people making lots of Freedom of Information Act applications.
Speaker 1:Well and again when they were being grilled Westminster, I mean there was a lot of information that was provided. That raises some of the questions. The feedback around the questioning didn't it Absolutely.
Speaker 2:I did. That raises some of the questions. The feedback around the questioning didn't absolutely I think.
Speaker 1:I think the fields association was specifically mentioned that and again, that's good because that's the checks and balances. Yes, absolutely yeah, which is so interesting. Um, can the government refuse to answer? A freedom of information? They just go. No, it doesn't matter how nice you are or how you've worded this, I just ain't going to give this information up yes, they can, tony um, they can refuse to answer a freedom of information request under certain conditions.
Speaker 2:So common exemptions might include you know, where there are national security or defense concerns, information related to ongoing investigations or legal proceedings, personal data that would breach privacy laws, commercially sensitive information that could harm a business, or internal communications where releasing the information would harm the decision maker. However, they must provide valid reasons for the refusal, and the person making the request, if they're not satisfied with the reasons for refusal, can appeal yeah, because I was just thinking that last one sounds like a bit of a catch-all to me they turn.
Speaker 1:Oh, I don't fancy answering that one, let's just go hit the internal button yeah, you know but you. But if you're not satisfied, you can go again you can what? Happens, then you go again, because won't the same person just come back to you and say I told you once.
Speaker 2:Well, I haven't actually appealed anything, so I'm probably not the right person to ask about that. I think there are other members of our committee who have been more of a dog with a bone and have appealed and, I think, been successful. Looks like a complaints procedure, yeah absolutely, and I think there are levels. So that's where the transparency comes in.
Speaker 1:There are checks to make sure person A is actually following procedurally correct guidelines and if the appeal is successful, obviously the the information will then be released, that's brilliant because, again, personally, and certainly with this situation here at weathersfield whether we're talking prisons as we were in the past or as we are in the future I think um the more we can understand the situation the government making the decisions based on is, the more we can either be comfortable with it or go back and challenge it. So, yeah, sounds good, okay, that's really good. So I'm sitting here now and I think, well, sarah made a lot of sense there. There's some stuff I would like to know about. What can what. If someone, one of our listeners, wants to actually give it a go and sort of find out something, what do they do? How do they go about it? Stara?
Speaker 2:um. So I think it's quite simple. Um, you need to work out where you want to send the freedom of information request to, um and then you just look online for for the email address um and then you send your email into to that particular department or public body. Um, I will always put in my request, I'll try and be as specific as possible with what I want and I will always say I am making this application under the freedom of information at 2000 and generally you get an acknowledgement straight away and they'll say we'll respond within 20 days. It's quite often that you don't actually get all the information within days. They they do keep you informed as to where they are at in the process, but I'd encourage anybody to do it. You know, maybe not to ask what sandwiches they had at the local council meeting, but you know on anything that they feel it would be really beneficial to know, make the application.
Speaker 1:And I think what's really nice about what you've said there is when the response comes back, there might be other threads to pull out. Yes, might be something else.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You think? Oh well, I need to understand that bit as well. Yeah, Because I think we're living at a time where we go off of what someone said, a neighbor or down the pub or heard somewhere, rather than actually making the effort to make an informed decision really yeah To find out the actual facts, absolutely. We get our information from the same sort of places. We have the same sort of point of view, but this really is an informed decision.
Speaker 2:Yes, that's what we're doing, yes.
Speaker 1:Okey-doke, all right. Well, I might just give it a go then, sarah.
Speaker 2:You definitely should.
Speaker 1:Tony, yeah, but thank you very much for your time, sarah. And yes, and we'll have to get you back on something else.
Speaker 2:I'll find something else, but no, really appreciate your time, it's been a pleasure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, thanks for listening. We hope that you enjoyed this episode and found it informative. Please make sure that you subscribe to our podcast so you don't miss a single episode. If you have a question that you would like to raise, or if there is a subject that you think would make an interesting episode, please email us on the link below. If you would like to support the show further, you can do so by clicking on the link below as well. Until next time, goodbye.